1 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:09,110 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:34,910 --> 00:00:31,040 hello from pier 39 in San Francisco and 3 00:00:36,830 --> 00:00:34,920 welcome to episode number 171 of the 4 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:36,840 skeptics earn Richard Saunders here with 5 00:00:44,630 --> 00:00:41,010 you gazing out on about 30 or 40 6 00:00:48,500 --> 00:00:44,640 floating pants pontoons half of them 7 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:48,510 filled up with sea lions it's quite the 8 00:00:53,420 --> 00:00:50,489 tourist attraction here in downtown San 9 00:00:59,000 --> 00:00:53,430 Francisco it's a beautifully sunny warm 10 00:01:03,260 --> 00:00:59,010 winters day that's a school children 11 00:01:05,170 --> 00:01:03,270 around being amused by the sea lions who 12 00:01:07,090 --> 00:01:05,180 are 13 00:01:10,690 --> 00:01:07,100 probably involved in some deep 14 00:01:12,310 --> 00:01:10,700 philosophical argument right now but 15 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:12,320 coming up on today's skeptic zone we 16 00:01:17,950 --> 00:01:14,930 have a special episode with the Eugenie 17 00:01:19,900 --> 00:01:17,960 Scott doctor Eugenie Scott and a tour of 18 00:01:22,750 --> 00:01:19,910 the National Center for Science 19 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:22,760 Education in Oakland which is not too 20 00:01:28,300 --> 00:01:25,090 far away from where i am at the moment 21 00:01:29,890 --> 00:01:28,310 now Jeannie Scott in the National Center 22 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:29,900 for Science Education have taken a big 23 00:01:36,430 --> 00:01:33,410 leap very recently they've decided to 24 00:01:42,370 --> 00:01:36,440 aid and support teachers in their 25 00:01:46,180 --> 00:01:42,380 endeavors to UM teach climate change the 26 00:01:48,820 --> 00:01:46,190 science behind climate change what has 27 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:48,830 she gotten herself into will let her 28 00:01:54,700 --> 00:01:50,770 explain coming up at the top of the show 29 00:01:56,710 --> 00:01:54,710 and after the break GD scott takes us on 30 00:01:59,230 --> 00:01:56,720 a tour of the National Center for 31 00:02:02,650 --> 00:01:59,240 Science Education sort of behind the 32 00:02:05,350 --> 00:02:02,660 scenes look at the facility itself then 33 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:05,360 to wrap up the show our very own dr. 34 00:02:10,300 --> 00:02:08,450 rachy dr. Rachel Dunlop just the other 35 00:02:12,610 --> 00:02:10,310 day was on national television in 36 00:02:15,130 --> 00:02:12,620 Australia on the show called the project 37 00:02:17,789 --> 00:02:15,140 which is on the Ten Network and she was 38 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:17,799 a special guest on there to chat about 39 00:02:23,380 --> 00:02:20,450 conspiracy theories well done and 40 00:02:29,470 --> 00:02:23,390 congratulations to dr. he4 appearing on 41 00:02:36,140 --> 00:02:33,590 well as the school children running 42 00:02:41,210 --> 00:02:36,150 around me like crazy in the sea lions 43 00:02:43,660 --> 00:02:41,220 are just basking in the sunshine talking 44 00:02:48,110 --> 00:02:43,670 to some seagulls over there I'm gonna 45 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:48,120 walk down to the next pier along grab 46 00:02:55,310 --> 00:02:51,570 myself a lovely bowl of clam chowder and 47 00:02:57,170 --> 00:02:55,320 sourdough a so doable oh I love it 48 00:02:59,690 --> 00:02:57,180 whenever I'm here I have a nice root 49 00:03:20,530 --> 00:02:59,700 beer and I'll let you enjoy the skeptic 50 00:03:25,610 --> 00:03:23,540 well as promised listeners once again 51 00:03:28,310 --> 00:03:25,620 I've made my way here to Oakland and 52 00:03:30,260 --> 00:03:28,320 California to visit the National Center 53 00:03:32,090 --> 00:03:30,270 science education to speak to my dear 54 00:03:33,920 --> 00:03:32,100 friend Jeannie Scott hello Jeanie hi 55 00:03:36,860 --> 00:03:33,930 it's so good to see you again thank you 56 00:03:39,380 --> 00:03:36,870 here we are back again in your office we 57 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:39,390 must think now they have been here four 58 00:03:45,170 --> 00:03:41,610 or five times over the years to catch up 59 00:03:47,990 --> 00:03:45,180 and discount who's counting and it's 60 00:03:49,820 --> 00:03:48,000 always a pleasure to come and see what's 61 00:03:52,070 --> 00:03:49,830 changed and what's new and I always ask 62 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:52,080 you the same questions so I'll start 63 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:54,090 with this the question I always ask you 64 00:03:58,520 --> 00:03:56,850 since we've lost had a good chat which 65 00:04:00,980 --> 00:03:58,530 is about a year ago when I came to visit 66 00:04:03,820 --> 00:04:00,990 what have been the big developments here 67 00:04:06,500 --> 00:04:03,830 the Center for Science Education the 68 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:06,510 really big development and the thing 69 00:04:15,500 --> 00:04:10,770 that is we are very excited about and a 70 00:04:18,860 --> 00:04:15,510 little nervous about is that we have 71 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:18,870 decided that just as teachers have 72 00:04:24,110 --> 00:04:21,090 problems with the teaching of evolution 73 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:24,120 and need some support some advice some 74 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:27,330 help so also we are discovering they are 75 00:04:32,870 --> 00:04:29,610 having problems with teaching global 76 00:04:35,300 --> 00:04:32,880 warming and climate change and similarly 77 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:35,310 need that kind of support advice and 78 00:04:43,840 --> 00:04:38,570 help to continue teaching good science 79 00:04:46,100 --> 00:04:43,850 we see more and more examples of 80 00:04:48,290 --> 00:04:46,110 legislation being proposed that would 81 00:04:50,990 --> 00:04:48,300 affect compromise the teaching of 82 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:51,000 climate change we get more reports from 83 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:54,090 individual teachers about students 84 00:04:59,780 --> 00:04:56,330 getting up and walking out of class or 85 00:05:01,880 --> 00:04:59,790 students parents showing up saying 86 00:05:03,260 --> 00:05:01,890 you're not going to teach my kid that 87 00:05:05,870 --> 00:05:03,270 the climate is getting warmer are you 88 00:05:08,930 --> 00:05:05,880 that this is a liberal plot somehow and 89 00:05:13,130 --> 00:05:08,940 on and on so teachers are being faced 90 00:05:16,070 --> 00:05:13,140 with what is really a political or an 91 00:05:18,260 --> 00:05:16,080 ideological pressure against the 92 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:18,270 teaching of climate change much as they 93 00:05:22,430 --> 00:05:20,490 have over the years been faced with the 94 00:05:24,470 --> 00:05:22,440 political ideological if you will 95 00:05:28,300 --> 00:05:24,480 pressure against the teaching of 96 00:05:31,089 --> 00:05:28,310 evolution wow wow this is a topic I 97 00:05:34,100 --> 00:05:31,099 what's the term 98 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:34,110 fools rush in where angels fear to tread 99 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:36,330 this is this is one of the topics of the 100 00:05:41,659 --> 00:05:38,970 fool that is I you know I sell them 101 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:41,669 cover this on the skeptic zone it occurs 102 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:43,530 to me that in the past and your 103 00:05:49,570 --> 00:05:45,810 continued fighting battle against the 104 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:49,580 forces of creationism and so on largely 105 00:05:56,450 --> 00:05:53,370 religiously based now you're tackling 106 00:05:59,540 --> 00:05:56,460 something which is a bit broader I think 107 00:06:03,950 --> 00:05:59,550 people people tend to just simply decide 108 00:06:06,050 --> 00:06:03,960 that the world is not warming us or the 109 00:06:08,620 --> 00:06:06,060 science must be wrong rather than coming 110 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:08,630 from a religious background it's not 111 00:06:16,070 --> 00:06:11,130 you're completely correct there there 112 00:06:19,010 --> 00:06:16,080 are not there are not total parallels 113 00:06:21,439 --> 00:06:19,020 between the two problems that you know 114 00:06:22,730 --> 00:06:21,449 the teachers are facing let me 115 00:06:24,230 --> 00:06:22,740 underscore first that there is a 116 00:06:25,790 --> 00:06:24,240 difference between what we do here and 117 00:06:27,110 --> 00:06:25,800 what you do I mean you are looking at 118 00:06:30,710 --> 00:06:27,120 skepticism you're looking at 119 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:30,720 pseudoscience and our overlap in terms 120 00:06:34,850 --> 00:06:32,849 of you what you do in your podcast and 121 00:06:36,649 --> 00:06:34,860 then CSC is creationism as a 122 00:06:38,990 --> 00:06:36,659 pseudoscience and that what got us 123 00:06:41,990 --> 00:06:39,000 talking originally years ago what we do 124 00:06:44,959 --> 00:06:42,000 here is we really look at science 125 00:06:46,790 --> 00:06:44,969 education and the creationism a problem 126 00:06:49,459 --> 00:06:46,800 is an issue for science education just 127 00:06:51,529 --> 00:06:49,469 like it's an interest to skepticism and 128 00:06:53,450 --> 00:06:51,539 when I'm wearing my Bay Area skeptics 129 00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:53,460 have them you know we we are very 130 00:07:02,980 --> 00:06:57,530 interested in that as well one parallel 131 00:07:05,719 --> 00:07:02,990 between climate science education and 132 00:07:08,719 --> 00:07:05,729 evolution education is that the 133 00:07:11,719 --> 00:07:08,729 opposition to either of these topics 134 00:07:14,149 --> 00:07:11,729 comes from an ideology but it's a 135 00:07:16,309 --> 00:07:14,159 different ideology the opposition to 136 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:16,319 evolution is a religious ideology 137 00:07:20,450 --> 00:07:18,330 generally it's conservative Christians 138 00:07:25,210 --> 00:07:20,460 although they're in Europe there's much 139 00:07:28,780 --> 00:07:25,220 more pushback from Muslims in 140 00:07:32,380 --> 00:07:28,790 in Israel the pushback comes from the 141 00:07:36,550 --> 00:07:32,390 super Orthodox Rogers so no ironic yeah 142 00:07:39,490 --> 00:07:36,560 right so there you have it opposition to 143 00:07:41,620 --> 00:07:39,500 teaching evolution comes almost one 144 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:41,630 hundred percent from religious 145 00:07:45,310 --> 00:07:44,090 ideologies that don't accept it of 146 00:07:46,780 --> 00:07:45,320 course there plenty of religious 147 00:07:48,570 --> 00:07:46,790 ideologies that do but you know the 148 00:07:50,980 --> 00:07:48,580 opposition comes from those who don't 149 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:50,990 when it comes to the teaching of climate 150 00:07:57,670 --> 00:07:54,650 change it also is motivated by ideology 151 00:08:00,660 --> 00:07:57,680 but a different ideology in the United 152 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:00,670 States where you have perhaps the 153 00:08:07,470 --> 00:08:04,490 strongest expression of anti global 154 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:07,480 warming the ideology that the primary 155 00:08:14,290 --> 00:08:12,050 ideology ISM is an anti big government 156 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:14,300 it's a political ideology it's people 157 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:16,970 who believe that global warming is bad 158 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:19,970 science that is only being promoted by 159 00:08:24,820 --> 00:08:22,250 political liberals who are trying to 160 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:24,830 build the government who are trying to 161 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:26,690 take away individual American freedoms 162 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:28,370 and of course individual freedom is a 163 00:08:34,450 --> 00:08:30,610 real important part of the American 164 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:34,460 story about themselves and that somehow 165 00:08:39,339 --> 00:08:36,530 this all gets mixed up with liberal 166 00:08:41,620 --> 00:08:39,349 conservative political views there's 167 00:08:44,140 --> 00:08:41,630 another component to the anti global 168 00:08:48,250 --> 00:08:44,150 warming movement and that is an economic 169 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:48,260 ideology which you tend to find among 170 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:52,810 libertarians and others of a what one 171 00:08:57,250 --> 00:08:54,770 scholar is called free-market 172 00:08:59,440 --> 00:08:57,260 fundamentalism those who believe that 173 00:09:01,300 --> 00:08:59,450 the free market will solve all problems 174 00:09:03,460 --> 00:09:01,310 economically and that anything that 175 00:09:06,790 --> 00:09:03,470 appears to fetter the free markets such 176 00:09:10,450 --> 00:09:06,800 as cap and trade or carbon tax or 177 00:09:15,250 --> 00:09:10,460 something that in some way is viewed as 178 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:15,260 restricting the ability of the energy 179 00:09:20,710 --> 00:09:18,890 producers the carbon coal gas etc to to 180 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:20,720 perform their you know business 181 00:09:27,670 --> 00:09:23,210 decisions that this is bad and this 182 00:09:33,010 --> 00:09:27,680 should be opposed so the global warming 183 00:09:35,350 --> 00:09:33,020 is viewed as a push by those who are 184 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:35,360 anti capitalist who want to increase 185 00:09:37,610 --> 00:09:37,130 socialism so you can see how this kind 186 00:09:39,170 --> 00:09:37,620 of gets 187 00:09:42,380 --> 00:09:39,180 right up with the conservative political 188 00:09:44,060 --> 00:09:42,390 ideology it's it's some good fertile 189 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:44,070 ground for conspiracy theory too isn't 190 00:09:50,900 --> 00:09:47,970 it Oh quite right so you know from the 191 00:09:53,420 --> 00:09:50,910 skeptic standpoint there may not be that 192 00:09:58,340 --> 00:09:53,430 much of a link with anti global warming 193 00:10:00,260 --> 00:09:58,350 because what maybe to the extent I mean 194 00:10:02,930 --> 00:10:00,270 that the parallels that we see at NCSE 195 00:10:05,950 --> 00:10:02,940 is that an ideological view is 196 00:10:09,680 --> 00:10:05,960 motivating an anti-science view 197 00:10:12,079 --> 00:10:09,690 evolution and global warming our 198 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:12,089 position is that what teachers should be 199 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:14,010 focusing on is what is the consensus 200 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:17,250 view of science what is is the majority 201 00:10:22,820 --> 00:10:20,370 of scientists proposing as the best 202 00:10:26,660 --> 00:10:22,830 explanation at this time and place and 203 00:10:28,130 --> 00:10:26,670 its evolution and it is that the planet 204 00:10:31,100 --> 00:10:28,140 is getting warmer and that people have 205 00:10:35,260 --> 00:10:31,110 important responsibility in this now if 206 00:10:38,450 --> 00:10:35,270 and when those two consensuses change 207 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:38,460 then teachers will should change what 208 00:10:43,550 --> 00:10:41,010 they're teaching evolution is very very 209 00:10:46,010 --> 00:10:43,560 very very solid I mean we don't 210 00:10:47,660 --> 00:10:46,020 anticipate that the idea that living 211 00:10:49,310 --> 00:10:47,670 things are common ancestors the universe 212 00:10:50,930 --> 00:10:49,320 is very ancient the plan has been moving 213 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:50,940 you know I don't think that's going to 214 00:10:55,250 --> 00:10:52,890 change if it does will change what we 215 00:10:58,490 --> 00:10:55,260 teach that job in the case of global 216 00:11:02,870 --> 00:10:58,500 warming most Americans are not as aware 217 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:02,880 of how solid the scientific consensus is 218 00:11:10,430 --> 00:11:05,850 around this when climate scientists are 219 00:11:12,949 --> 00:11:10,440 pulled you find high ninety percent 97 220 00:11:16,610 --> 00:11:12,959 96 percent of climate scientists saying 221 00:11:19,300 --> 00:11:16,620 yes the planet is warming a good deal of 222 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:19,310 it is anthropogenic or human influenced 223 00:11:24,260 --> 00:11:22,170 there's arguments about how much but 224 00:11:27,740 --> 00:11:24,270 climate scientists are pretty uniform 225 00:11:30,350 --> 00:11:27,750 that it's substantial yeah and if you 226 00:11:32,300 --> 00:11:30,360 pull scientists in general you find 227 00:11:34,519 --> 00:11:32,310 again maybe not quite that high 228 00:11:37,699 --> 00:11:34,529 percentage as among climate scientists 229 00:11:40,100 --> 00:11:37,709 but at least in the 90s of scientists 230 00:11:41,690 --> 00:11:40,110 pulled as a whole agree the planet is 231 00:11:44,449 --> 00:11:41,700 getting warmer and that people have a 232 00:11:46,250 --> 00:11:44,459 lot to do with that so that is the 233 00:11:48,319 --> 00:11:46,260 current scientific consensus that is 234 00:11:49,769 --> 00:11:48,329 what we think teachers should teach what 235 00:11:53,189 --> 00:11:49,779 we oppose is the ID 236 00:11:55,639 --> 00:11:53,199 that teachers should somehow shape their 237 00:11:58,050 --> 00:11:55,649 teaching because of ideological pressure 238 00:12:00,809 --> 00:11:58,060 that is the parallel we see between 239 00:12:03,329 --> 00:12:00,819 anti-evolution and anti climate change 240 00:12:04,889 --> 00:12:03,339 and that is that growing realization 241 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:04,899 which we studied for about a year and 242 00:12:08,970 --> 00:12:06,370 really thought carefully about this 243 00:12:11,910 --> 00:12:08,980 ready to do that realization is what led 244 00:12:14,639 --> 00:12:11,920 us to decide okay we need to take the 245 00:12:16,699 --> 00:12:14,649 Sun teachers need help we have a lot of 246 00:12:19,439 --> 00:12:16,709 experience at NCIC and dealing with 247 00:12:21,569 --> 00:12:19,449 political promises i mean you know we're 248 00:12:23,340 --> 00:12:21,579 we're very good at helping you write a 249 00:12:25,470 --> 00:12:23,350 letter to the school board or helping 250 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:25,480 you shape a presentation to the pool 251 00:12:29,759 --> 00:12:27,490 school board that will be effective or 252 00:12:32,850 --> 00:12:29,769 helping you craft an argument that will 253 00:12:35,309 --> 00:12:32,860 be effective with a decision maker a 254 00:12:37,410 --> 00:12:35,319 legislature or whatever and that is the 255 00:12:39,660 --> 00:12:37,420 help that we hope we can offer to 256 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:39,670 teachers as they're wrestling with this 257 00:12:44,970 --> 00:12:42,689 new problem as climate change it just 258 00:12:47,069 --> 00:12:44,980 occurred to me just came across my mind 259 00:12:48,660 --> 00:12:47,079 as you're speaking the old phrase that 260 00:12:51,689 --> 00:12:48,670 they've been battling for years old 261 00:12:55,799 --> 00:12:51,699 evolution is just a theory of course and 262 00:12:56,879 --> 00:12:55,809 we know how flawed that is I just wonder 263 00:12:59,549 --> 00:12:56,889 how they're going to approach someone 264 00:13:02,549 --> 00:12:59,559 like you in this organization now coming 265 00:13:04,650 --> 00:13:02,559 in to bat for the status quo the 266 00:13:07,379 --> 00:13:04,660 consensus what the opposition are going 267 00:13:09,119 --> 00:13:07,389 to come up with to say Oh climate change 268 00:13:10,949 --> 00:13:09,129 is just a theory they're going to use 269 00:13:13,319 --> 00:13:10,959 that what do you think they will attack 270 00:13:14,970 --> 00:13:13,329 the science yeah they are attacking the 271 00:13:17,549 --> 00:13:14,980 science this is what we're learning is 272 00:13:19,639 --> 00:13:17,559 we're becoming more and more familiar 273 00:13:23,460 --> 00:13:19,649 with both the science as well as the 274 00:13:27,299 --> 00:13:23,470 denialist arguments against it that is 275 00:13:33,150 --> 00:13:27,309 of course a tried and true approach it 276 00:13:37,259 --> 00:13:33,160 was used by those who didn't believe 277 00:13:39,799 --> 00:13:37,269 that there should be changes made in the 278 00:13:42,299 --> 00:13:39,809 production of products that had 279 00:13:45,710 --> 00:13:42,309 chlorofluorocarbons when the ozone hole 280 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:45,720 was revealed as you know a dangerous 281 00:13:51,199 --> 00:13:48,850 item at a dangerous phenomenon that was 282 00:13:53,699 --> 00:13:51,209 taking place back in the 80s and that 283 00:13:57,269 --> 00:13:53,709 chain you know restriction should be 284 00:13:59,429 --> 00:13:57,279 made on manufacturers of these of this 285 00:14:00,260 --> 00:13:59,439 chemical because it was contributing to 286 00:14:03,530 --> 00:14:00,270 a growth and the 287 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:03,540 oh no well what was that the tried and 288 00:14:07,820 --> 00:14:05,730 true approaches you attack the science 289 00:14:09,340 --> 00:14:07,830 well the site the jury is still out 290 00:14:11,510 --> 00:14:09,350 we're not really sure whether 291 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:11,520 chlorofluorocarbons really do produce 292 00:14:16,070 --> 00:14:13,170 this effect we shouldn't make any 293 00:14:17,870 --> 00:14:16,080 restrictions on the economy because 294 00:14:19,940 --> 00:14:17,880 people will you lose jobs and this is 295 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:19,950 bad for capitalism etc the same old 296 00:14:25,430 --> 00:14:22,410 arguments it's a tried and true strategy 297 00:14:28,910 --> 00:14:25,440 for the tobacco companies when they 298 00:14:32,210 --> 00:14:28,920 denied that the consumption of smoke 299 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:32,220 caused lung cancer and heart disease and 300 00:14:37,220 --> 00:14:35,010 other problems the jury is still out the 301 00:14:39,050 --> 00:14:37,230 science is still unsettled we have our 302 00:14:40,730 --> 00:14:39,060 scientists that say a you have your 303 00:14:42,740 --> 00:14:40,740 scientists that say be so therefore we 304 00:14:45,020 --> 00:14:42,750 shouldn't take any action yeah yeah 305 00:14:46,790 --> 00:14:45,030 exactly the same rule as long as they do 306 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:46,800 a tabloid television back home 307 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:48,090 especially they'll present too 308 00:14:54,230 --> 00:14:50,730 ridiculous sides of an argument and say 309 00:14:55,700 --> 00:14:54,240 well you decide what you've got some 310 00:14:58,730 --> 00:14:55,710 familiarity with that haven't you oh 311 00:15:00,830 --> 00:14:58,740 yeah yes indeedy so we'll which is 312 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:00,840 absurd I mean you give people two 313 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:04,050 cartoon versions of an argument tell 314 00:15:07,820 --> 00:15:05,850 them to the side and as if they could 315 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:07,830 make an informed decision it's just 316 00:15:13,940 --> 00:15:11,250 ridiculous the the argument with tobacco 317 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:13,950 and with the global excuse me with the 318 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:16,170 ozone hole and other scientific quote 319 00:15:21,290 --> 00:15:19,050 controversies and of course currently 320 00:15:24,340 --> 00:15:21,300 with the problem with the global warming 321 00:15:27,410 --> 00:15:24,350 is that there is a scientific consensus 322 00:15:29,300 --> 00:15:27,420 there was fairly quickly a consensus 323 00:15:32,540 --> 00:15:29,310 among medical researchers that tobacco 324 00:15:35,270 --> 00:15:32,550 is bad for you yes okay and there is 325 00:15:37,700 --> 00:15:35,280 currently a consensus among scientists 326 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:37,710 and especially climate scientists that 327 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:40,650 global warming is occurring big chunk of 328 00:15:45,770 --> 00:15:43,170 it as anthropogenic and people need to 329 00:15:48,740 --> 00:15:45,780 know about this and there are actions 330 00:15:52,100 --> 00:15:48,750 that one might assume would the society 331 00:15:54,620 --> 00:15:52,110 would take as a result of this in order 332 00:15:57,650 --> 00:15:54,630 to stop these actions the claim is made 333 00:15:59,570 --> 00:15:57,660 by the anti global warming people that 334 00:16:01,850 --> 00:15:59,580 the science is still out we have our 335 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:01,860 scientists we have this list of 30,000 336 00:16:06,350 --> 00:16:03,690 scientists which something else we can 337 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:06,360 talk about which you know only goes to 338 00:16:09,380 --> 00:16:08,730 show that or we have these websites that 339 00:16:12,620 --> 00:16:09,390 are written 340 00:16:14,390 --> 00:16:12,630 I scientist you that show that the the 341 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:14,400 science of global warming is not settled 342 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:17,010 it's not a consensus we we shouldn't be 343 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:23,250 taking action NCSE is a very small 344 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:28,410 operation we don't take a position on 345 00:16:34,060 --> 00:16:31,050 policy issues we're not going to argue 346 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:34,070 that you should go for a cap-and-trade 347 00:16:38,900 --> 00:16:36,810 versus carbon tax or carbon tax versus 348 00:16:40,790 --> 00:16:38,910 cap and trade or any other kind of 349 00:16:43,250 --> 00:16:40,800 specific policy issue we're not a policy 350 00:16:44,750 --> 00:16:43,260 institute we shouldn't venture where we 351 00:16:47,090 --> 00:16:44,760 don't have expertise this is a big issue 352 00:16:49,970 --> 00:16:47,100 in Australia well I know it's you yeah 353 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:49,980 it's great and it's wonderful that your 354 00:16:53,780 --> 00:16:51,810 government is taking enough interest and 355 00:16:55,130 --> 00:16:53,790 accepts the fact that the planet is 356 00:16:56,870 --> 00:16:55,140 getting warmer we're not there yet 357 00:17:00,260 --> 00:16:56,880 you're way ahead of us in that regard 358 00:17:02,300 --> 00:17:00,270 but you know as a small non policy kind 359 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:02,310 of institution we're going to focus on 360 00:17:05,990 --> 00:17:04,050 what we are good at what we are good at 361 00:17:08,300 --> 00:17:06,000 is helping teachers cope with these 362 00:17:10,130 --> 00:17:08,310 kinds of problems and we're not going to 363 00:17:13,910 --> 00:17:10,140 take any positions on what should be 364 00:17:16,910 --> 00:17:13,920 done about it although our basic foods 365 00:17:18,980 --> 00:17:16,920 positioned as a science organization 366 00:17:21,949 --> 00:17:18,990 really and most of my staff are 367 00:17:24,980 --> 00:17:21,959 scientists is that whatever decision 368 00:17:26,990 --> 00:17:24,990 society chooses to make about these very 369 00:17:30,590 --> 00:17:27,000 important issues should be firmly 370 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:30,600 grounded in sound science that's the key 371 00:17:36,380 --> 00:17:33,690 that's the key just another thought that 372 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:36,390 crossed my mind as we were chatting back 373 00:17:43,370 --> 00:17:40,290 home the the leading voices shall I say 374 00:17:46,100 --> 00:17:43,380 and for climate change denial seem to be 375 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:46,110 right wing shock jocks not from anything 376 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:48,690 else they'd like to bluster and yell on 377 00:17:53,750 --> 00:17:50,930 the radio and one of the most absurd 378 00:17:55,490 --> 00:17:53,760 arguments I've ever heard about about 379 00:17:58,100 --> 00:17:55,500 this whole situation is there'll be a 380 00:17:59,690 --> 00:17:58,110 cold day somewhere in Australia freezing 381 00:18:02,270 --> 00:17:59,700 conditions you know unusually cold and 382 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:02,280 they'll use that safe what climate 383 00:18:05,780 --> 00:18:04,170 change look the Earth's getting cold are 384 00:18:07,730 --> 00:18:05,790 you crazy there's no climate change and 385 00:18:10,100 --> 00:18:07,740 it's just there there's no global 386 00:18:12,140 --> 00:18:10,110 warming because it's cold over here yeah 387 00:18:15,740 --> 00:18:12,150 and of course a couple years ago in this 388 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:15,750 in Washington DC they had thigh-high 389 00:18:21,020 --> 00:18:18,570 snow yeah I mean this was phenomenal and 390 00:18:21,690 --> 00:18:21,030 of course there you go you see the case 391 00:18:23,310 --> 00:18:21,700 all the 392 00:18:24,870 --> 00:18:23,320 Global so what do you mean it's getting 393 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:24,880 warmer look at all the snow that we 394 00:18:31,379 --> 00:18:28,450 haven't and of course one reason why 395 00:18:32,879 --> 00:18:31,389 many communicators started talking about 396 00:18:35,159 --> 00:18:32,889 climate change rather than global 397 00:18:38,370 --> 00:18:35,169 warming even though global warming is at 398 00:18:40,710 --> 00:18:38,380 the heart of the global climate changes 399 00:18:43,620 --> 00:18:40,720 that are taking place all over the the 400 00:18:46,110 --> 00:18:43,630 planet it's maybe less confusing to 401 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:46,120 people to think about the climate 402 00:18:51,210 --> 00:18:48,210 changing rather than warming because 403 00:18:53,279 --> 00:18:51,220 we're getting more snow here or less you 404 00:18:55,830 --> 00:18:53,289 know or more cold here the fact of the 405 00:18:57,509 --> 00:18:55,840 matter is that the chunk of a climate is 406 00:19:00,990 --> 00:18:57,519 going to be intensified and patterns are 407 00:19:02,820 --> 00:19:01,000 going to change it yep salaam and we're 408 00:19:05,039 --> 00:19:02,830 not entirely sure exactly what's going 409 00:19:07,590 --> 00:19:05,049 to happen but we should expect more 410 00:19:11,009 --> 00:19:07,600 snows say the climatologist because as 411 00:19:12,810 --> 00:19:11,019 the planet warms the atmosphere holds 412 00:19:15,950 --> 00:19:12,820 more moisture which means we're going to 413 00:19:18,750 --> 00:19:15,960 get more rain more snow although not 414 00:19:21,750 --> 00:19:18,760 uniformly they're going to be because of 415 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:21,760 changes in ocean temperature which is a 416 00:19:26,759 --> 00:19:24,010 very scary phenomenon I believe because 417 00:19:29,180 --> 00:19:26,769 of changes in ocean temperature currents 418 00:19:32,549 --> 00:19:29,190 are going to change and that means that 419 00:19:34,289 --> 00:19:32,559 places that I mean one very frightening 420 00:19:36,029 --> 00:19:34,299 possibility is that Northern Europe 421 00:19:38,370 --> 00:19:36,039 might get a heck of a lot colder than it 422 00:19:40,259 --> 00:19:38,380 is now if there are substantial changes 423 00:19:45,539 --> 00:19:40,269 in the Gulf Stream moving further south 424 00:19:48,210 --> 00:19:45,549 which may happen and of course the we do 425 00:19:49,860 --> 00:19:48,220 have measured we do have measurements 426 00:19:52,019 --> 00:19:49,870 showing that the ocean is getting warmer 427 00:19:54,269 --> 00:19:52,029 and the ocean is a huge driver of 428 00:19:56,879 --> 00:19:54,279 climate the whole discussion of la la 429 00:19:58,769 --> 00:19:56,889 ninia El Nino and so forth that is 430 00:20:00,210 --> 00:19:58,779 basically having to do with oceanic 431 00:20:03,210 --> 00:20:00,220 temperatures and the changes that take 432 00:20:07,049 --> 00:20:03,220 place over over a period of a couple of 433 00:20:08,909 --> 00:20:07,059 years so we should expect the climate to 434 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:08,919 change and it is going to have effects 435 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:12,490 on the planet as a whole both land 436 00:20:17,519 --> 00:20:15,490 atmosphere and ocean and of course the 437 00:20:20,700 --> 00:20:17,529 fundamental root of this climate change 438 00:20:23,009 --> 00:20:20,710 which is the bigger picture is global 439 00:20:27,330 --> 00:20:23,019 warming because it is the warming of the 440 00:20:32,580 --> 00:20:27,340 planet as a whole because largely of the 441 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:35,230 warming gases shall we say that is 442 00:20:39,820 --> 00:20:37,970 getting into the atmosphere and creating 443 00:20:42,009 --> 00:20:39,830 this what sometimes referred to as the 444 00:20:44,860 --> 00:20:42,019 greenhouse effect but certainly it is 445 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:44,870 increasing the amount of warmth that is 446 00:20:48,850 --> 00:20:46,850 being retained by the atmosphere it's 447 00:20:51,419 --> 00:20:48,860 not you know and of course you know I 448 00:20:54,759 --> 00:20:51,429 mean there's so many frightening and 449 00:20:57,399 --> 00:20:54,769 fascinating and one end things that are 450 00:21:01,539 --> 00:20:57,409 going on as the climate warms the polar 451 00:21:03,310 --> 00:21:01,549 ice caps reduce we're seeing this very 452 00:21:06,549 --> 00:21:03,320 clearly with the north with a northern 453 00:21:09,610 --> 00:21:06,559 ice cap and that in itself is going to 454 00:21:13,659 --> 00:21:09,620 increase the warming rate more quickly 455 00:21:15,310 --> 00:21:13,669 because some sunlight is not going to be 456 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:15,320 reflected off the poles it's going to be 457 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:19,730 absorbed by the by the darker Oceanics 458 00:21:24,009 --> 00:21:22,010 surface at there so there's lots and 459 00:21:26,460 --> 00:21:24,019 lots of things to be conscious about Wow 460 00:21:29,289 --> 00:21:26,470 Jeanie is if as if your mind wasn't 461 00:21:31,090 --> 00:21:29,299 completely chock-a-block full of what 462 00:21:33,279 --> 00:21:31,100 you've been concentrating on for them 463 00:21:36,399 --> 00:21:33,289 last many years now this whole other 464 00:21:38,019 --> 00:21:36,409 realm has come in and I can't even 465 00:21:39,460 --> 00:21:38,029 imagine the correspondence in the 466 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:39,470 battles you're going to be entering into 467 00:21:43,450 --> 00:21:41,450 with this because I mean I've seen 468 00:21:45,399 --> 00:21:43,460 people who are passionate on about 469 00:21:49,090 --> 00:21:45,409 creationism and we both have of course 470 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:49,100 but the passion that is stirred for on 471 00:21:54,730 --> 00:21:52,490 this issue is in all my years and it 472 00:21:58,419 --> 00:21:54,740 does generate the most passion I've seen 473 00:21:59,830 --> 00:21:58,429 I've been I gave a talk once and in the 474 00:22:02,730 --> 00:21:59,840 questions and answers i talked about 475 00:22:06,129 --> 00:22:02,740 general skepticism paranormal stuff and 476 00:22:08,259 --> 00:22:06,139 someone in the audience demanded to know 477 00:22:09,820 --> 00:22:08,269 my views on the carbon tax and climate 478 00:22:11,350 --> 00:22:09,830 change it I said look I'm sorry I'm not 479 00:22:13,810 --> 00:22:11,360 here to talk about that and he was 480 00:22:16,060 --> 00:22:13,820 offended and I wouldn't even talk about 481 00:22:18,430 --> 00:22:16,070 the subject so I which was not even 482 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:18,440 relevant to the touch was exactly but I 483 00:22:21,759 --> 00:22:20,090 was a skeptic you see all you must be 484 00:22:23,139 --> 00:22:21,769 and this is a big issue our Australia as 485 00:22:25,210 --> 00:22:23,149 you point out what is a big issue in 486 00:22:27,759 --> 00:22:25,220 Australia well let's take a break from 487 00:22:30,430 --> 00:22:27,769 that genie let's let's have a little 488 00:22:32,649 --> 00:22:30,440 wander around the National Center for 489 00:22:35,649 --> 00:22:32,659 Science Education here poke around some 490 00:22:37,930 --> 00:22:35,659 of the rooms very good and I would also 491 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:37,940 want to introduce you to my new staff 492 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:40,850 member mark McCaffrey who is a climate 493 00:22:43,980 --> 00:22:42,010 scientist 494 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:43,990 and a specialist in climate science 495 00:22:50,430 --> 00:22:47,490 education and he is going to be our 496 00:22:54,870 --> 00:22:50,440 strong right arm here dealing with this 497 00:22:56,910 --> 00:22:54,880 issue oui oui as you say we've spent 25 498 00:22:59,450 --> 00:22:56,920 plus years talking about evolution at 499 00:23:01,710 --> 00:22:59,460 NCSE and most of us on staff are 500 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:01,720 evolutionary scientists have one form or 501 00:23:06,030 --> 00:23:03,610 another biologists are geologists or 502 00:23:08,580 --> 00:23:06,040 anthropologist or something so we needed 503 00:23:12,060 --> 00:23:08,590 to have that additional scientific 504 00:23:13,980 --> 00:23:12,070 strength on staff we felt that you know 505 00:23:14,940 --> 00:23:13,990 we can we're all smart people we're 506 00:23:17,310 --> 00:23:14,950 going to learn a great deal about 507 00:23:19,350 --> 00:23:17,320 climate science but we're not going to 508 00:23:20,790 --> 00:23:19,360 you know it's not like you have somebody 509 00:23:22,050 --> 00:23:20,800 who's trained in this field and has 510 00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:22,060 really been working in this field for 511 00:23:28,140 --> 00:23:24,370 years and years and we're delighted to 512 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:28,150 have obtained marks services he will he 513 00:23:32,610 --> 00:23:30,250 just started working for us full-time in 514 00:23:34,140 --> 00:23:32,620 January so he's our newest guy and now 515 00:23:35,250 --> 00:23:34,150 be sure that you meet him on our tour 516 00:23:37,410 --> 00:23:35,260 all right well let's have a little 517 00:23:39,750 --> 00:23:37,420 wonder around and see who we can see in 518 00:23:43,649 --> 00:23:39,760 what we can see all right and be sure to 519 00:23:50,590 --> 00:23:47,799 and coming up after the break Eugenie 520 00:24:06,700 --> 00:23:50,600 Scott takes us on a tour of the National 521 00:24:08,529 --> 00:24:06,710 Center for Science Education hi my name 522 00:24:10,990 --> 00:24:08,539 is Erica dining and I recently published 523 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:11,000 a book my dad is Brian Dunning from 524 00:24:15,009 --> 00:24:13,490 scaphoid com the title of my book is 525 00:24:17,950 --> 00:24:15,019 polar bear in the trial of leadership 526 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:17,960 you can find it on amazon.com or through 527 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:20,570 the link at skeptic zone TV it is an 528 00:24:24,100 --> 00:24:22,490 adventure novel about the trials of a 529 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:24,110 group of animals trying to escape a 530 00:24:28,269 --> 00:24:26,330 corrupt Queen this book is great for 531 00:24:30,789 --> 00:24:28,279 families adolescents and children alike 532 00:24:32,379 --> 00:24:30,799 and here it is again polar bear in the 533 00:24:37,629 --> 00:24:32,389 trial of leadership by arachidonic 534 00:24:40,450 --> 00:24:37,639 Thanks hi this is brian dunning from 535 00:24:41,889 --> 00:24:40,460 sceptile calm the best way to share the 536 00:24:43,629 --> 00:24:41,899 benefits of critical thinking and 537 00:24:46,330 --> 00:24:43,639 science with someone who doesn't listen 538 00:24:48,700 --> 00:24:46,340 to podcasts is to give them a book I 539 00:24:50,710 --> 00:24:48,710 invite you to check out my newest book 540 00:24:54,369 --> 00:24:50,720 based on selected episodes of The 541 00:24:58,210 --> 00:24:54,379 sceptile cast skep tied three pirates 542 00:25:00,700 --> 00:24:58,220 pyramids and papyrus 50 chapters contain 543 00:25:03,009 --> 00:25:00,710 something for everyone questions you've 544 00:25:05,639 --> 00:25:03,019 always wondered about and subjects to 545 00:25:09,070 --> 00:25:05,649 intrigue and challenge your friends 546 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:09,080 pirates pyramids and papyrus by Brian 547 00:25:13,629 --> 00:25:10,970 Dunning with a foreword by Richard 548 00:25:15,129 --> 00:25:13,639 Saunders of the Australian skeptics it's 549 00:25:18,070 --> 00:25:15,139 available now from major online 550 00:25:21,249 --> 00:25:18,080 booksellers as a paperback and as an 551 00:25:24,820 --> 00:25:21,259 e-book or get a personalized copy from 552 00:25:35,340 --> 00:25:24,830 sceptile calm I'm Brian Dunning from 553 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:37,600 so we're here at the National Center for 554 00:25:42,850 --> 00:25:40,010 Science Education and it's a nice little 555 00:25:45,540 --> 00:25:42,860 building here in Oakland and desk ah you 556 00:25:48,130 --> 00:25:45,550 should see it folks as a wonderful 557 00:25:50,050 --> 00:25:48,140 mobile crop circle I'm looking at the 558 00:25:51,700 --> 00:25:50,060 mobile of the solar system are you 559 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:51,710 hanging from the ceiling which is that's 560 00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:53,930 really nice that's all the planets crop 561 00:26:00,700 --> 00:25:57,890 circle of your older logo on the wall a 562 00:26:02,350 --> 00:26:00,710 picture there's a giant inflatable globe 563 00:26:05,470 --> 00:26:02,360 of the earth just hanging off a pipe 564 00:26:07,540 --> 00:26:05,480 Charles Darwin dolly hang on the wall 565 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:07,550 there are dinosaurs and birds hanging 566 00:26:13,120 --> 00:26:09,410 from the ceiling there's a t-rex 567 00:26:14,950 --> 00:26:13,130 skeleton over there GV what what must it 568 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:14,960 be like to what would come here to work 569 00:26:22,300 --> 00:26:17,930 every day oh great fun it's great fun 570 00:26:25,510 --> 00:26:22,310 it's a mi I actually am NOT the interior 571 00:26:28,660 --> 00:26:25,520 decorator of nco CDs mostly have been 572 00:26:31,830 --> 00:26:28,670 strung up by colleagues of mine who gee 573 00:26:35,890 --> 00:26:31,840 we just got a new new pterodactyl 574 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:35,900 inflatable toy let's hang it up so yeah 575 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:38,330 that works what I wrote I can see in at 576 00:26:43,270 --> 00:26:41,330 least four from one two three four 577 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:43,280 pterodactyls hanging from various bits 578 00:26:46,990 --> 00:26:45,050 of the sea I get the most suspect David 579 00:26:50,020 --> 00:26:47,000 almond Smith is responsible for that 580 00:26:52,750 --> 00:26:50,030 he's he has a great sense of play and we 581 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:52,760 we benefit greatly from his now a lot of 582 00:26:58,240 --> 00:26:53,930 these things have been sent to us by 583 00:27:02,650 --> 00:26:58,250 members we have a a place of foot mat 584 00:27:06,210 --> 00:27:02,660 yeah whats whys it's a doorman doorman 585 00:27:08,470 --> 00:27:06,220 oh yeah you're not in Kansas anymore 586 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:08,480 that was sent to us by one of our 587 00:27:11,890 --> 00:27:09,890 members but it's hanging on the wall 588 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:11,900 it's hanging on the wall and mostly we 589 00:27:15,970 --> 00:27:14,090 take photographs of when we get visitors 590 00:27:19,030 --> 00:27:15,980 yeah we usually pose them beneath the 591 00:27:20,740 --> 00:27:19,040 you're not in Kansas anymore Matt so so 592 00:27:24,430 --> 00:27:20,750 it doesn't get one idea one of you in 593 00:27:26,590 --> 00:27:24,440 under the doormat and but that of course 594 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:26,600 is as an in-joke in that the state of 595 00:27:32,410 --> 00:27:30,410 Kansas has had a history over time of 596 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:32,420 wrestling with the creationism and 597 00:27:36,100 --> 00:27:34,010 evolution issue and their state board of 598 00:27:39,190 --> 00:27:36,110 education made a number of very poor 599 00:27:42,460 --> 00:27:39,200 decisions back especially from about 600 00:27:45,490 --> 00:27:42,470 to about 2005 and so Kansas kind of 601 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:45,500 became something of a of a catchword for 602 00:27:49,269 --> 00:27:47,570 creationism in the country you're not in 603 00:27:51,310 --> 00:27:49,279 Kansas anymore it's a one it's you know 604 00:27:53,259 --> 00:27:51,320 it's it's sort of and that's a phrase of 605 00:27:55,930 --> 00:27:53,269 course from The Wizard of ID is it may 606 00:27:57,610 --> 00:27:55,940 be well we're not in canvassed Kansas 607 00:27:59,769 --> 00:27:57,620 anymore toto or something like Dorothy 608 00:28:03,090 --> 00:27:59,779 toto I don't think we're in Kansas 609 00:28:05,950 --> 00:28:03,100 anymore I know it this doormat is 610 00:28:07,629 --> 00:28:05,960 strategically placed I must say near one 611 00:28:09,519 --> 00:28:07,639 of the most famous rooms in the the 612 00:28:12,759 --> 00:28:09,529 whole place which is the the bathroom 613 00:28:15,610 --> 00:28:12,769 it's true let's shall we take a trip 614 00:28:18,039 --> 00:28:15,620 open the door come into the bathroom 615 00:28:20,980 --> 00:28:18,049 with me Jeanne and it gets a little 616 00:28:24,490 --> 00:28:20,990 echoey it does and it's it's a room 617 00:28:26,500 --> 00:28:24,500 about the size of three or four phone 618 00:28:29,289 --> 00:28:26,510 boxes are you it's quite spacious for 619 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:29,299 this rapidly about five or six but i 620 00:28:34,029 --> 00:28:31,010 need to you know something that's pretty 621 00:28:37,629 --> 00:28:34,039 odd science and we've taken advantage of 622 00:28:39,730 --> 00:28:37,639 the size by using the wall space to put 623 00:28:42,039 --> 00:28:39,740 some of our favorite correspondents it's 624 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:42,049 one of this wall to wall correspondence 625 00:28:46,180 --> 00:28:43,850 and here up on big notice boards and 626 00:28:48,399 --> 00:28:46,190 good grief there's the other old emails 627 00:28:50,259 --> 00:28:48,409 and things and then press clatters and 628 00:28:52,779 --> 00:28:50,269 handwritten letters and things and i 629 00:28:55,870 --> 00:28:52,789 happen to notice that is even photograph 630 00:28:58,509 --> 00:28:55,880 of me and you're very lovely postcards 631 00:29:01,269 --> 00:28:58,519 are sent to NCSE and dr. Scott all the 632 00:29:03,279 --> 00:29:01,279 best look at very grim with my big spoon 633 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:03,289 yes indeed well I can understand why you 634 00:29:08,259 --> 00:29:04,970 have tomato soup all over my shirt 635 00:29:10,509 --> 00:29:08,269 result of that bent but we have we have 636 00:29:14,049 --> 00:29:10,519 our favorite stuff on here and it's it's 637 00:29:17,230 --> 00:29:14,059 from a variety of sources things from 638 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:17,240 people who you know have said very very 639 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:20,210 nice things about us someplace here 640 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:22,010 although right now of course I'm not 641 00:29:29,620 --> 00:29:25,210 finding it we have a very nice note from 642 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:29,630 Nobel laureate steven weinberg talking 643 00:29:33,759 --> 00:29:31,610 about you know how important our 644 00:29:35,710 --> 00:29:33,769 wordless ends good times there are so 645 00:29:37,570 --> 00:29:35,720 may dismiss so lovely so many things 646 00:29:39,139 --> 00:29:37,580 stuck everywhere it's I'm not suppose 647 00:29:43,219 --> 00:29:39,149 you know we have 648 00:29:45,049 --> 00:29:43,229 other male like so you're the dirty 649 00:29:46,759 --> 00:29:45,059 bastards responsible for shoving that 650 00:29:48,829 --> 00:29:46,769 liberal down our kids throats 651 00:29:50,119 --> 00:29:48,839 you should be ashamed of ourselves may 652 00:29:52,009 --> 00:29:50,129 Almighty God the creator of all things 653 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:52,019 have mercy on your soul so you not 654 00:29:57,229 --> 00:29:54,570 everybody's a fan but he left it with a 655 00:29:58,879 --> 00:29:57,239 nice sentence at the end yet he was 656 00:30:00,589 --> 00:29:58,889 wishing you well in the strange sir and 657 00:30:02,209 --> 00:30:00,599 there's a parrot hanging down for the 658 00:30:05,419 --> 00:30:02,219 walls oh yeah it's a big sort of soft 659 00:30:07,039 --> 00:30:05,429 cuddly toy Yeah right now I thank you 660 00:30:09,169 --> 00:30:07,049 for calling attention we need to Destin 661 00:30:13,959 --> 00:30:09,179 parents oh yes it is a dusty card yes 662 00:30:16,959 --> 00:30:13,969 yeah this is true we do have we have a 663 00:30:19,579 --> 00:30:16,969 letter from for young ladies apparently 664 00:30:21,589 --> 00:30:19,589 I'm a Christian my name is Brittany and 665 00:30:23,599 --> 00:30:21,599 I hate evolution I don't believe it your 666 00:30:25,789 --> 00:30:23,609 nonsense is just a bunch of fake and she 667 00:30:28,249 --> 00:30:25,799 goes on similarly but at the end she 668 00:30:32,389 --> 00:30:28,259 says haven't have a good day atheist 669 00:30:34,989 --> 00:30:32,399 people so in your friends so we have a 670 00:30:39,079 --> 00:30:34,999 number of things and one of my favorites 671 00:30:41,690 --> 00:30:39,089 one of my favorites is the the claim 672 00:30:44,180 --> 00:30:41,700 that I am the foremost terrestrial 673 00:30:47,089 --> 00:30:44,190 authority on Genesis and you know we we 674 00:30:49,639 --> 00:30:47,099 like that very much we we think that 675 00:30:52,789 --> 00:30:49,649 that's that that leaves a great deal of 676 00:30:56,810 --> 00:30:52,799 room for people to think about you know 677 00:30:58,249 --> 00:30:56,820 well as their a lunar Tristan that's 678 00:31:00,169 --> 00:30:58,259 already on Genesis well I'm actually 679 00:31:02,060 --> 00:31:00,179 imagine that the foremost authority 680 00:31:04,310 --> 00:31:02,070 would take the time to write to you is 681 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:04,320 no one actually corresponds with us 682 00:31:08,779 --> 00:31:06,450 regularly in a mirror so we have good 683 00:31:10,999 --> 00:31:08,789 things and the cartoons on the wall here 684 00:31:13,779 --> 00:31:11,009 in press clippings with with you I see a 685 00:31:15,950 --> 00:31:13,789 couple became well I can see why my 686 00:31:18,169 --> 00:31:15,960 visit to your bathroom is certainly an 687 00:31:20,749 --> 00:31:18,179 experience when one visits the end 688 00:31:24,079 --> 00:31:20,759 newcomers tend to spend a lot of time 689 00:31:26,509 --> 00:31:24,089 here I mean it it takes people a long 690 00:31:29,959 --> 00:31:26,519 time to get out of the bathroom but yes 691 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:29,969 it's so i must say 11 that was rather 692 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:33,330 fun as some number of years ago somebody 693 00:31:37,879 --> 00:31:36,330 wrote hello mrs. Scott IC or miss got I 694 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:37,889 see your name everywhere and I see you 695 00:31:41,149 --> 00:31:39,570 get around lot so I thought I'd email 696 00:31:43,919 --> 00:31:41,159 you and offer to buy you dinner if you 697 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:43,929 ever get to Tulsa yeah so I 698 00:31:49,980 --> 00:31:46,090 you have a date and also if I'm so mind 699 00:31:54,060 --> 00:31:49,990 so we get great mail both for and 700 00:31:55,710 --> 00:31:54,070 against and the the choice pieces end up 701 00:31:57,659 --> 00:31:55,720 in our bathroom so if anyone comes to 702 00:31:59,190 --> 00:31:57,669 visit should certainly a trip to the 703 00:32:01,590 --> 00:31:59,200 bathroom now we're just passing the 704 00:32:04,499 --> 00:32:01,600 giant inflatable globe and I'm proud to 705 00:32:08,070 --> 00:32:04,509 say that Australia is is prominent front 706 00:32:10,289 --> 00:32:08,080 and center although miss shapen there's 707 00:32:12,239 --> 00:32:10,299 a bay there is an inlet of something 708 00:32:16,259 --> 00:32:12,249 that I've never seen before it's just 709 00:32:18,090 --> 00:32:16,269 where the gods have come together it has 710 00:32:18,930 --> 00:32:18,100 to do with the seam of the plastic I 711 00:32:23,279 --> 00:32:18,940 don't think you should take it 712 00:32:25,980 --> 00:32:23,289 personally I very strange there we are 713 00:32:28,109 --> 00:32:25,990 and when I look at this I realize what 714 00:32:30,180 --> 00:32:28,119 an amazing thing it is to fly from 715 00:32:32,669 --> 00:32:30,190 Sydney and I can actually see right over 716 00:32:35,100 --> 00:32:32,679 this why it takes so long for you to get 717 00:32:37,139 --> 00:32:35,110 to visit us at Richard who does we love 718 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:37,149 it every time but yeah boy I'd tell you 719 00:32:42,359 --> 00:32:39,490 it's a it's a contribution to it's a 720 00:32:44,279 --> 00:32:42,369 it's fun yeah there's a lot of your 721 00:32:46,830 --> 00:32:44,289 visit long long hours on the airplane 722 00:32:48,659 --> 00:32:46,840 and there we're passing cubicles now 723 00:32:51,830 --> 00:32:48,669 with people very hard at work they re 724 00:32:56,159 --> 00:32:51,840 insurers this is a rayon David our 725 00:32:59,489 --> 00:32:56,169 support staff raise our business manager 726 00:33:02,220 --> 00:32:59,499 and director of operations now we're 727 00:33:04,529 --> 00:33:02,230 moving back into the back portion I 728 00:33:06,509 --> 00:33:04,539 seems to be a storage wrist isn't it you 729 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:06,519 know it's now it's office space that's a 730 00:33:11,879 --> 00:33:08,850 good sign where and like the rest of the 731 00:33:15,450 --> 00:33:11,889 rooms here you have memorabilia 732 00:33:17,009 --> 00:33:15,460 everywhere another Darwin doll another 733 00:33:19,159 --> 00:33:17,019 Darwin doll there's a Darwin dollar 734 00:33:23,519 --> 00:33:19,169 there there's a devil rubber duckie a 735 00:33:26,039 --> 00:33:23,529 skeleton on a motorbike it it's quite 736 00:33:28,409 --> 00:33:26,049 funny ready yeah various various staff 737 00:33:30,269 --> 00:33:28,419 of sort of left different decorations so 738 00:33:32,039 --> 00:33:30,279 there in yon and so there you have it we 739 00:33:34,499 --> 00:33:32,049 also have a lovely little cute 740 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:34,509 children's art painting of Noah's Ark 741 00:33:38,879 --> 00:33:36,610 there and well your Suzy is also very 742 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:38,889 charming we haven't found a place to put 743 00:33:43,259 --> 00:33:40,570 that up yeah if people send us Darwin 744 00:33:46,379 --> 00:33:43,269 dolls a lot so we kind of done it hold 745 00:33:48,450 --> 00:33:46,389 you know schoolroom of Darwin dolls and 746 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:48,460 but another place that i want to show 747 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:50,770 you Richard come around the corner yeah 748 00:33:56,670 --> 00:33:53,530 favorite parts ovens right to the very 749 00:34:05,340 --> 00:33:56,680 back corner 0 through a mr. mysterious 750 00:34:08,669 --> 00:34:05,350 door shut that door has our library and 751 00:34:10,980 --> 00:34:08,679 archives Wow look at this really and of 752 00:34:15,210 --> 00:34:10,990 course I'm storage too as well but we 753 00:34:18,240 --> 00:34:15,220 have one two three four bookshelves two 754 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:18,250 rows of books on each side one to grieve 755 00:34:22,230 --> 00:34:20,530 you have five tiers so I don't such 756 00:34:24,060 --> 00:34:22,240 every logger eyes could tell you exactly 757 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:24,070 how many books how many volumes we have 758 00:34:28,980 --> 00:34:26,050 in our library but it's been building up 759 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:28,990 over the years and we have in our 760 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:30,850 library there's two kinds of books 761 00:34:36,389 --> 00:34:33,370 basically we have regular straight 762 00:34:38,100 --> 00:34:36,399 science books on evolution number of 763 00:34:39,630 --> 00:34:38,110 books on Darwin and you don't and so 764 00:34:41,820 --> 00:34:39,640 forth and so on but then we also have 765 00:34:44,780 --> 00:34:41,830 the creationist libraries have to done 766 00:34:47,940 --> 00:34:44,790 and yes exactly because they are not as 767 00:34:50,190 --> 00:34:47,950 likely to be found in your library in 768 00:34:52,380 --> 00:34:50,200 your public lives is the greatest it's 769 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:52,390 all it's mixed up it's mixed up I just 770 00:34:59,880 --> 00:34:54,970 noticing the first thing I see here the 771 00:35:01,950 --> 00:34:59,890 flood there we go life itself all sort 772 00:35:03,630 --> 00:35:01,960 of Galilee so many books here folks 773 00:35:06,330 --> 00:35:03,640 hundreds and hundreds and hundreds on 774 00:35:11,220 --> 00:35:06,340 the topic several hundreds yeah and but 775 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:11,230 maybe what's even more interesting to to 776 00:35:17,820 --> 00:35:15,850 scholars we do get scholars literally 777 00:35:19,350 --> 00:35:17,830 from around the world who are interested 778 00:35:21,330 --> 00:35:19,360 in the American creationism and 779 00:35:23,820 --> 00:35:21,340 evolution controversy they will come 780 00:35:25,140 --> 00:35:23,830 here to use our archives not so much the 781 00:35:28,950 --> 00:35:25,150 books that we've just been looking at 782 00:35:34,820 --> 00:35:28,960 you but the files the final shelf here 783 00:35:40,830 --> 00:35:37,680 creationist controversies in various 784 00:35:43,140 --> 00:35:40,840 states just looking here here's one the 785 00:35:46,740 --> 00:35:43,150 Alabama textbook disclaimer case Darby 786 00:35:48,570 --> 00:35:46,750 Montana we have Salman versus cobb 787 00:35:51,030 --> 00:35:48,580 county that was a big legal case we've 788 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:51,040 got a lot of stuff there we have the 789 00:35:55,230 --> 00:35:53,050 archives of course from kitsmiller vs. 790 00:36:00,170 --> 00:35:55,240 Dover I beg you do do that's and that's 791 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:00,180 a good and also some some journals 792 00:36:08,270 --> 00:36:04,290 students for origins research this is 793 00:36:11,510 --> 00:36:08,280 you know going way way back to look 794 00:36:12,950 --> 00:36:11,520 really in 1978 oh wow and actually this 795 00:36:17,950 --> 00:36:12,960 might be of interest to some of your 796 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:17,960 listeners yeah it was it was when our 797 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:22,410 archivist of the time was helping staff 798 00:36:27,710 --> 00:36:25,890 find materials that would be relevant to 799 00:36:33,170 --> 00:36:27,720 the kids mother versus Dover case back 800 00:36:35,510 --> 00:36:33,180 in 2004-2005 one of the things that we 801 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:35,520 did was go back and look through some of 802 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:37,890 this old archival material from the 70s 803 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:42,770 and 80s and she was able to find an 804 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:45,930 article from the students for origins 805 00:36:50,930 --> 00:36:47,490 research from fall of nineteen 806 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:50,940 eighty-one yeah might even take a 807 00:36:56,720 --> 00:36:54,090 photograph of this unbiased biology 808 00:37:00,080 --> 00:36:56,730 textbook plans to move and this was a 809 00:37:02,180 --> 00:37:00,090 reference to a book that was planned by 810 00:37:04,970 --> 00:37:02,190 the foundation for thought and ethics 811 00:37:07,460 --> 00:37:04,980 Charles B thaxton talking about how they 812 00:37:10,430 --> 00:37:07,470 wanted to produce a book that would be a 813 00:37:12,230 --> 00:37:10,440 high school biology supplement which 814 00:37:14,420 --> 00:37:12,240 would have both creation and evolution 815 00:37:17,210 --> 00:37:14,430 in it and this would be you know 816 00:37:18,740 --> 00:37:17,220 supposedly suitable to be sold in public 817 00:37:20,630 --> 00:37:18,750 schools they were going to try to go 818 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:20,640 into the textbook market now remember 819 00:37:27,070 --> 00:37:24,090 this was the date on this of course was 820 00:37:30,740 --> 00:37:27,080 nineteen eighty-one this is before the 821 00:37:32,650 --> 00:37:30,750 courts decisions that declared that the 822 00:37:35,180 --> 00:37:32,660 teaching of creationism was 823 00:37:36,770 --> 00:37:35,190 unconstitutional you could not bring so 824 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:36,780 this was still when they thought they 825 00:37:41,390 --> 00:37:38,610 would be able to do this well this was 826 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:41,400 this planned book was the ancestor of 827 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:44,370 the book that eventually was produced by 828 00:37:49,310 --> 00:37:46,410 thaxton and the foundation for thought 829 00:37:51,890 --> 00:37:49,320 and ethics of pandas and people which 830 00:37:54,590 --> 00:37:51,900 was very significant in the hold over 831 00:37:56,240 --> 00:37:54,600 Pennsylvania controversy because that 832 00:38:00,230 --> 00:37:56,250 was the book that the school board 833 00:38:02,930 --> 00:38:00,240 members sought to have taught in the 834 00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:02,940 over school system so finding this kind 835 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:06,450 of this reference was key because when 836 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:08,850 we told our when we told the lawyer the 837 00:38:14,180 --> 00:38:11,810 legal team we found this reference from 838 00:38:16,610 --> 00:38:14,190 the foundation for thought and ethics 839 00:38:17,390 --> 00:38:16,620 FTE that they were making you know they 840 00:38:19,610 --> 00:38:17,400 had an 841 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:19,620 I into creation and evolution book gee I 842 00:38:24,530 --> 00:38:21,810 wonder if any early manuscripts are 843 00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:24,540 still around well the lawyer is very 844 00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:27,210 quickly decided that was something they 845 00:38:33,290 --> 00:38:29,930 wanted to look into they subpoenaed any 846 00:38:35,300 --> 00:38:33,300 early manuscripts of pandas and people 847 00:38:37,130 --> 00:38:35,310 from foundation for fun and ethics I 848 00:38:39,890 --> 00:38:37,140 would have loved to have been a fly on 849 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:39,900 that wall when that Sabina came in 850 00:38:46,850 --> 00:38:43,650 because FTE must have just died but you 851 00:38:48,140 --> 00:38:46,860 know to their credit they did not just 852 00:38:49,910 --> 00:38:48,150 find a shredder someplace which would 853 00:38:51,890 --> 00:38:49,920 have been illegal but you know in one 854 00:38:55,490 --> 00:38:51,900 sense would have known right they 855 00:38:57,920 --> 00:38:55,500 coughed up the manuscript and using 856 00:39:00,920 --> 00:38:57,930 those manuscripts we were able to show a 857 00:39:03,530 --> 00:39:00,930 direct progression from creationist 858 00:39:05,690 --> 00:39:03,540 textbooks called you know creation 859 00:39:07,540 --> 00:39:05,700 biology and other titles like that all 860 00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:07,550 the way up through the several 861 00:39:11,090 --> 00:39:09,330 manuscripts to the book that they 862 00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:11,100 eventually published of pandas and 863 00:39:16,700 --> 00:39:13,650 people but and during the course of this 864 00:39:20,540 --> 00:39:16,710 evolution so to speak they adroitly 865 00:39:22,730 --> 00:39:20,550 substituted the word intelligent the 866 00:39:25,430 --> 00:39:22,740 phrase intelligent design wherever they 867 00:39:28,610 --> 00:39:25,440 had said previously creationism that's 868 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:28,620 quite famous isn't it and I think you 869 00:39:32,450 --> 00:39:30,090 probably gave a talk on this right so 870 00:39:34,210 --> 00:39:32,460 that you do a search for the manuscript 871 00:39:36,830 --> 00:39:34,220 and see where they've simply replaced 872 00:39:38,450 --> 00:39:36,840 one word for the other that's right and 873 00:39:40,670 --> 00:39:38,460 we were able to present that information 874 00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:40,680 to the judge or the lawyers obviously 875 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:42,570 present we provided that information to 876 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:44,130 the lawyers and that was very 877 00:39:49,460 --> 00:39:47,130 influential in helping to convince the 878 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:49,470 judge that intelligent design really was 879 00:39:53,780 --> 00:39:51,930 just creation science with a new label 880 00:39:56,030 --> 00:39:53,790 that's really and of course since the 881 00:39:58,640 --> 00:39:56,040 courts in the US had already determined 882 00:40:00,800 --> 00:39:58,650 that you that teaching creation science 883 00:40:04,900 --> 00:40:00,810 was unconstitutional if intelligent 884 00:40:08,630 --> 00:40:04,910 design is creation science duh 885 00:40:10,370 --> 00:40:08,640 constitutional so what about a little 886 00:40:13,670 --> 00:40:10,380 that that little article that i showed 887 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:13,680 you turned out to be the source of what 888 00:40:18,770 --> 00:40:15,770 turned out to be a pretty important 889 00:40:21,230 --> 00:40:18,780 argument in a pretty important legal 890 00:40:23,770 --> 00:40:21,240 case so it's all here well a lot is a 891 00:40:28,550 --> 00:40:23,780 lot is here lots and lots and lots you 892 00:40:29,900 --> 00:40:28,560 so yeah and of course we also have the 893 00:40:33,559 --> 00:40:29,910 the mud 894 00:40:39,289 --> 00:40:33,569 Oh project project must tell you I must 895 00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:39,299 tell you you gave me very kindly in 2004 896 00:40:45,559 --> 00:40:43,410 when I spoke for the skeptics in 897 00:40:46,940 --> 00:40:45,569 Berkeley yeah that's probably when I met 898 00:40:48,799 --> 00:40:46,950 you for the first time I think we're 899 00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:48,809 pretty close to it around then as a 900 00:40:53,690 --> 00:40:51,210 thank you you gave me a project Steve 901 00:40:57,349 --> 00:40:53,700 t-shirt delighted i did salut one yeah 902 00:40:59,089 --> 00:40:57,359 it's it doesn't seem to age that's been 903 00:41:01,220 --> 00:40:59,099 watched more times than I care to think 904 00:41:02,990 --> 00:41:01,230 and the letters are still good and the 905 00:41:05,510 --> 00:41:03,000 shirt is good quality so whatever the 906 00:41:07,250 --> 00:41:05,520 manufacturer is it and I tell you what 907 00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:07,260 I've all the shirts the t-shirts i wear 908 00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:09,450 with skeptical bits and slogans that one 909 00:41:14,390 --> 00:41:11,970 gets people tapping me on the shoulder 910 00:41:17,660 --> 00:41:14,400 asking me about it wonder if it really 911 00:41:21,170 --> 00:41:17,670 does isn't that something but our normal 912 00:41:23,270 --> 00:41:21,180 if you come to our ring any more than 913 00:41:26,599 --> 00:41:23,280 other books of shirts we have you have 914 00:41:29,329 --> 00:41:26,609 this great Wow and there's a cutaway of 915 00:41:31,700 --> 00:41:29,339 the geology of Grand Canyon cheering via 916 00:41:34,099 --> 00:41:31,710 various layers and on one side is the 917 00:41:36,980 --> 00:41:34,109 creation model starting at the 4,000 BC 918 00:41:39,710 --> 00:41:36,990 and the other side is the evolutionary 919 00:41:41,420 --> 00:41:39,720 starting at two billion years so this is 920 00:41:45,589 --> 00:41:41,430 this is a you get if you do the 921 00:41:47,390 --> 00:41:45,599 Grand can't see how that's worth it just 922 00:41:49,849 --> 00:41:47,400 for the shirt Hank you what what a 923 00:41:51,829 --> 00:41:49,859 great-looking shirt that is a bridge and 924 00:41:56,019 --> 00:41:51,839 if you think people tap you on the 925 00:42:01,190 --> 00:41:58,099 wonderful what is it being sure that's 926 00:42:03,019 --> 00:42:01,200 it now this is a extra large it comes in 927 00:42:04,819 --> 00:42:03,029 various ID but yeah we are der shirts 928 00:42:06,950 --> 00:42:04,829 for the people who go on our grand 929 00:42:10,490 --> 00:42:06,960 canyon trip and we do have a great time 930 00:42:12,260 --> 00:42:10,500 we do have a great time our Grand Canyon 931 00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:12,270 sure it is a creation and evolution 932 00:42:17,059 --> 00:42:14,970 trading yes you see if you go with the 933 00:42:21,589 --> 00:42:17,069 Institute for Creation Research yeah you 934 00:42:23,690 --> 00:42:21,599 only get the creationist view if you 935 00:42:26,029 --> 00:42:23,700 come with ncsc you'll get the creation 936 00:42:27,849 --> 00:42:26,039 and the evolution field I will give you 937 00:42:30,859 --> 00:42:27,859 the creationist view and we bring a 938 00:42:33,859 --> 00:42:30,869 geologist along who teaches the hell out 939 00:42:35,599 --> 00:42:33,869 of you in terms of the geology really 940 00:42:37,220 --> 00:42:35,609 got a lot of Grand Canyon information 941 00:42:40,069 --> 00:42:37,230 would you care to meet some of my other 942 00:42:42,380 --> 00:42:40,079 absolutely some of my other just wander 943 00:42:45,230 --> 00:42:42,390 up the stairs here yes there is another 944 00:42:47,450 --> 00:42:45,240 level now this is up on that we call 945 00:42:50,750 --> 00:42:47,460 this the loft the loft and we lock up 946 00:42:53,539 --> 00:42:50,760 the project people up here passing more 947 00:42:58,130 --> 00:42:53,549 dinosaurs as we go and i don't mean the 948 00:43:00,500 --> 00:42:58,140 staff that's a good breakfast this is my 949 00:43:02,809 --> 00:43:00,510 new newest colleague mark McCaffrey he's 950 00:43:04,670 --> 00:43:02,819 our climate science guy this is my 951 00:43:07,940 --> 00:43:04,680 friend Richard Saunders great to meet 952 00:43:09,829 --> 00:43:07,950 you Richard okay and Josh rose know he's 953 00:43:12,650 --> 00:43:09,839 one of our project people as well he's 954 00:43:14,990 --> 00:43:12,660 one of the flare-ups Wranglers and he's 955 00:43:17,450 --> 00:43:15,000 also been helping a lot with the climate 956 00:43:20,299 --> 00:43:17,460 change initiative and you guys have 957 00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:20,309 ended up in the top try anyhow be like 958 00:43:24,710 --> 00:43:22,170 to the penthouse be calling it the loft 959 00:43:27,049 --> 00:43:24,720 it's the penthouse penthouse yes and how 960 00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:27,059 long have you been here for four years 961 00:43:33,829 --> 00:43:30,770 for a half years um so what has changed 962 00:43:35,690 --> 00:43:33,839 in your four years here would most 963 00:43:37,910 --> 00:43:35,700 noticeably well we're dealing with 964 00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:37,920 climate change packages at the biggest 965 00:43:42,980 --> 00:43:40,770 change in but yeah and I mean it's 966 00:43:45,500 --> 00:43:42,990 you've definitely been a shift since 967 00:43:47,870 --> 00:43:45,510 2007 let's talk about intelligent design 968 00:43:50,029 --> 00:43:47,880 I think more of a move back to sort of 969 00:43:52,849 --> 00:43:50,039 traditional creationist you think of a 970 00:43:57,079 --> 00:43:52,859 giant intelligent designs have its day 971 00:43:58,760 --> 00:43:57,089 it's it's filed and moved on it never 972 00:44:00,440 --> 00:43:58,770 really had a lot of energy as a 973 00:44:02,539 --> 00:44:00,450 political strategy and his legal 974 00:44:07,010 --> 00:44:02,549 strategy it had legs for a while but 975 00:44:08,900 --> 00:44:07,020 then it lost in court and it didn't it 976 00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:08,910 never had enthusiasm in its own right 977 00:44:12,589 --> 00:44:10,650 you don't hear much about it and so yeah 978 00:44:14,510 --> 00:44:12,599 I mean yeah you know Discovery Institute 979 00:44:16,430 --> 00:44:14,520 still promoting it but it's not exciting 980 00:44:19,789 --> 00:44:16,440 for anybody else anymore you know I 981 00:44:22,220 --> 00:44:19,799 think it was barely possible that the 982 00:44:24,620 --> 00:44:22,230 Discovery Institute or other people 983 00:44:27,049 --> 00:44:24,630 associated with the intelligent design 984 00:44:30,019 --> 00:44:27,059 movement are behind some of the academic 985 00:44:32,690 --> 00:44:30,029 freedom act issues because they have 986 00:44:37,599 --> 00:44:32,700 been pushing the academic freedom act 987 00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:37,609 types of proposals and legislation and 988 00:44:42,890 --> 00:44:40,170 certainly their model bill that they 989 00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:42,900 wrote a few years ago bits and pieces of 990 00:44:49,010 --> 00:44:46,410 that oven it showed up in the law that 991 00:44:51,260 --> 00:44:49,020 the state of Florida almost got past 992 00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:51,270 fortunately didn't pass and there's sort 993 00:44:53,329 --> 00:44:52,770 of remnants of that that sort of 994 00:44:55,459 --> 00:44:53,339 trickler 995 00:44:57,589 --> 00:44:55,469 and pop up periodically in other states 996 00:45:00,289 --> 00:44:57,599 so that's part of the monitoring that we 997 00:45:02,809 --> 00:45:00,299 do trying to trace things back and where 998 00:45:04,489 --> 00:45:02,819 does this come from and oh yes and as a 999 00:45:07,190 --> 00:45:04,499 shift away from let's talk about 1000 00:45:08,660 --> 00:45:07,200 intelligent design to let's talk about 1001 00:45:10,969 --> 00:45:08,670 whatever the teacher wants to talk about 1002 00:45:12,589 --> 00:45:10,979 in addition to evolution so not even 1003 00:45:13,609 --> 00:45:12,599 saying it has to be intelligent design 1004 00:45:15,739 --> 00:45:13,619 it could be I mean they could bring in 1005 00:45:17,329 --> 00:45:15,749 stuff from Answers in Genesis and say oh 1006 00:45:20,660 --> 00:45:17,339 yeah the earth was created 6,000 years 1007 00:45:21,589 --> 00:45:20,670 ago in six 24-hour days I mean it's 1008 00:45:23,450 --> 00:45:21,599 still illegal it's still 1009 00:45:25,339 --> 00:45:23,460 unconstitutional as it as it ever was 1010 00:45:27,589 --> 00:45:25,349 yeah same thing with intelligent design 1011 00:45:30,109 --> 00:45:27,599 but it's making it a little bit harder 1012 00:45:32,420 --> 00:45:30,119 to just shut down a teacher and stop a 1013 00:45:34,670 --> 00:45:32,430 teacher from doing that from from going 1014 00:45:37,309 --> 00:45:34,680 outside the signs like that okay a lot 1015 00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:37,319 of these academic freedom act proposals 1016 00:45:44,180 --> 00:45:41,729 that we see are permissive you know they 1017 00:45:48,049 --> 00:45:44,190 allow a teacher to bring information in 1018 00:45:50,630 --> 00:45:48,059 that that supplements the the curriculum 1019 00:45:53,299 --> 00:45:50,640 they don't require the teacher to do it 1020 00:45:55,819 --> 00:45:53,309 and so that makes it harder to challenge 1021 00:45:57,859 --> 00:45:55,829 on the face of the of the proposal 1022 00:46:00,440 --> 00:45:57,869 itself it's harder to challenge the law 1023 00:46:02,599 --> 00:46:00,450 itself if it says well you can do this 1024 00:46:04,370 --> 00:46:02,609 you don't have to do this but you can do 1025 00:46:05,959 --> 00:46:04,380 it so that means you've got to find the 1026 00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:05,969 teacher that's actually doing it if 1027 00:46:09,259 --> 00:46:07,890 you're going to challenge the law so 1028 00:46:10,940 --> 00:46:09,269 there's a deliberate there's a reason 1029 00:46:12,799 --> 00:46:10,950 why those laws are structured that way 1030 00:46:15,950 --> 00:46:12,809 the other thing that we're finding these 1031 00:46:18,289 --> 00:46:15,960 laws do is they are protective they 1032 00:46:20,209 --> 00:46:18,299 protect a teacher who wants to bring an 1033 00:46:22,219 --> 00:46:20,219 additional material and bringing an 1034 00:46:25,130 --> 00:46:22,229 additional material is code for be 1035 00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:25,140 inseparable we're talking bringing in 1036 00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:27,450 creationism okay come on this is back to 1037 00:46:31,130 --> 00:46:29,130 earth creationist yeah yeah it's done 1038 00:46:33,890 --> 00:46:31,140 under the guise of promoting critical 1039 00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:33,900 thinking and reasoning and no damage 1040 00:46:38,390 --> 00:46:37,170 activeanalysis eyes well but that's not 1041 00:46:40,759 --> 00:46:38,400 even the phrase that it's used it's just 1042 00:46:41,959 --> 00:46:40,769 in the bill it'll just say in the 1043 00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:41,969 interest you know that there is a 1044 00:46:46,489 --> 00:46:43,890 secular interest in promoting critical 1045 00:46:48,019 --> 00:46:46,499 thinking and objective analysis like 1046 00:46:49,849 --> 00:46:48,029 freedom and actually have a freedom of 1047 00:46:51,289 --> 00:46:49,859 it all these things that how can you be 1048 00:46:53,479 --> 00:46:51,299 against this right it sounds so 1049 00:46:55,249 --> 00:46:53,489 reasonable but in practice as soon as 1050 00:46:57,469 --> 00:46:55,259 anyone is asked well what other views 1051 00:46:58,910 --> 00:46:57,479 are not being represented well you know 1052 00:47:01,219 --> 00:46:58,920 God created the earth and evolution is 1053 00:47:02,779 --> 00:47:01,229 wrong right that's still what's behind 1054 00:47:06,650 --> 00:47:02,789 it it's still trying to find a way to 1055 00:47:09,050 --> 00:47:06,660 get that in it's just the 1056 00:47:13,910 --> 00:47:09,060 language of the bill is less overt about 1057 00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:13,920 it but they often will bundle up global 1058 00:47:20,060 --> 00:47:16,890 warming evolution stem cells and things 1059 00:47:22,850 --> 00:47:20,070 like that so that the kind of draw a red 1060 00:47:25,580 --> 00:47:22,860 flag to themselves when they you know it 1061 00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:25,590 call out specific areas of science that 1062 00:47:31,190 --> 00:47:28,290 are so-called controversial yeah now as 1063 00:47:35,570 --> 00:47:31,200 just as we were chatting earlier Jeannie 1064 00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:35,580 about the movement to look at global 1065 00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:39,170 warming and climate climate change when 1066 00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:41,370 whenever I mentioned this on my podcast 1067 00:47:46,370 --> 00:47:44,490 I get letters from everybody twice and 1068 00:47:48,530 --> 00:47:46,380 their dogs you know calling me an idiot 1069 00:47:51,140 --> 00:47:48,540 from from both directions and everything 1070 00:47:53,330 --> 00:47:51,150 do you really you're really in an area 1071 00:47:55,700 --> 00:47:53,340 which is like a hornet's nest no 1072 00:47:57,620 --> 00:47:55,710 question yeah but everybody and their 1073 00:48:00,140 --> 00:47:57,630 brother and their dog or actually from 1074 00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:00,150 what we're seeing a very small very 1075 00:48:08,210 --> 00:48:04,290 vocal very effective group of naysayers 1076 00:48:10,490 --> 00:48:08,220 who some somehow have the time to be 1077 00:48:11,720 --> 00:48:10,500 able to look like their numbers are much 1078 00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:11,730 greater than they actually are and 1079 00:48:17,810 --> 00:48:14,090 they're all experts absolutely a 1080 00:48:19,340 --> 00:48:17,820 question it hits a nerve yeah yeah but 1081 00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:19,350 look at all the practice we got dealing 1082 00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:23,370 with evolution for 25 actually was very 1083 00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:25,170 funny a journalist who was interviewing 1084 00:48:31,250 --> 00:48:28,370 me last week when we announced in this 1085 00:48:33,590 --> 00:48:31,260 second week of January 2012 when we 1086 00:48:35,450 --> 00:48:33,600 announced the the initiative a 1087 00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:35,460 journalist that I knew called me up she 1088 00:48:41,270 --> 00:48:39,090 said you know so like the frying pan 1089 00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:41,280 wasn't hot enough you had to jump into 1090 00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:43,770 the fire that's good that's a good 1091 00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:46,050 analogy yeah it is our gentlemen I wish 1092 00:48:50,870 --> 00:48:49,170 you lots of luck thank you I really do I 1093 00:48:53,510 --> 00:48:50,880 mean you're right as if you didn't have 1094 00:48:55,910 --> 00:48:53,520 a had enough toss before and and please 1095 00:48:57,530 --> 00:48:55,920 do not think that we were bored I mean 1096 00:48:59,120 --> 00:48:57,540 that we didn't have enough to do with 1097 00:49:01,100 --> 00:48:59,130 evolution I mean the evolution the 1098 00:49:03,650 --> 00:49:01,110 anti-evolution movement marches on a 1099 00:49:05,690 --> 00:49:03,660 pace these people have not gone into 1100 00:49:07,730 --> 00:49:05,700 holes and decided they've been looked 1101 00:49:09,980 --> 00:49:07,740 there there's this constant background 1102 00:49:12,380 --> 00:49:09,990 radiation that we have of bills that are 1103 00:49:14,570 --> 00:49:12,390 proposed but especially you know at that 1104 00:49:16,670 --> 00:49:14,580 local level where teachers get leaned on 1105 00:49:17,720 --> 00:49:16,680 where school districts are flirting with 1106 00:49:19,460 --> 00:49:17,730 changing the curriculum 1107 00:49:21,470 --> 00:49:19,470 I mean that is our bread and butter that 1108 00:49:23,240 --> 00:49:21,480 is what we do all the time at NCIC and 1109 00:49:26,060 --> 00:49:23,250 we're going to continue doing that but 1110 00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:26,070 now now that we have mark on staff we're 1111 00:49:29,330 --> 00:49:27,450 going to take on this new issue as well 1112 00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:29,340 and hopefully we'll be able to help 1113 00:49:33,859 --> 00:49:31,650 teachers with it Jeanne is if your job 1114 00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:33,869 wasn't hard enough it's it's elective 1115 00:49:38,359 --> 00:49:35,970 course it is of course it isn't every 1116 00:49:39,980 --> 00:49:38,369 year it really is a what a pleasure it's 1117 00:49:43,340 --> 00:49:39,990 been to visit you once again in this 1118 00:49:46,340 --> 00:49:43,350 wonderful place and I I'll be back next 1119 00:50:02,200 --> 00:49:46,350 year for our annual update I can promise 1120 00:50:07,550 --> 00:50:05,480 hello on Allah needle on solo scoffs of 1121 00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:07,560 deployment been to an atlas Lunada 1122 00:50:15,050 --> 00:50:09,930 skeptic zone for weed to swap and Katie 1123 00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:15,060 Schneider I'm moving from RC Connor we 1124 00:50:28,910 --> 00:50:26,130 nearly burn skeptics own phone to TV now 1125 00:50:34,100 --> 00:50:28,920 it's time for dr. Rachel reports with 1126 00:50:35,510 --> 00:50:34,110 dr. Rachel Dunlop something a little bit 1127 00:50:37,670 --> 00:50:35,520 different now and thanks to the internet 1128 00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:37,680 we have videos of cats online banking 1129 00:50:42,860 --> 00:50:40,410 and the spread of millions of conspiracy 1130 00:50:45,770 --> 00:50:42,870 theories on just about anything the moon 1131 00:50:47,930 --> 00:50:45,780 landing was faked JFK was shot by a man 1132 00:50:50,210 --> 00:50:47,940 on the grassy knoll princess died was 1133 00:50:53,060 --> 00:50:50,220 murdered by the monarchy September 11 1134 00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:53,070 was an inside job just about every major 1135 00:50:57,740 --> 00:50:55,770 event in history has conspiracy theories 1136 00:51:00,230 --> 00:50:57,750 attached to them with the introduction 1137 00:51:02,720 --> 00:51:00,240 of email and sites like Facebook mere 1138 00:51:05,390 --> 00:51:02,730 rumor now spreads like wildfire around 1139 00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:05,400 the world and experts say conspiracy 1140 00:51:10,220 --> 00:51:07,770 theories are increasing becoming a 1141 00:51:12,230 --> 00:51:10,230 cultural virus well as far as conspiracy 1142 00:51:14,090 --> 00:51:12,240 theories go I owe one for the Nazis 1143 00:51:15,350 --> 00:51:14,100 build a spaceship and a silly in the 1144 00:51:17,900 --> 00:51:15,360 behind the moon there was a second 1145 00:51:18,980 --> 00:51:17,910 government who shot JFK 911 being inside 1146 00:51:21,650 --> 00:51:18,990 Jabba not actually being a terrorist 1147 00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:21,660 attack American loves their conspiracy 1148 00:51:27,830 --> 00:51:24,690 theories it's claimed KFC is run by the 1149 00:51:29,810 --> 00:51:27,840 KKK and makes black men impotent it's 1150 00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:29,820 reported nearly half of americans 1151 00:51:34,610 --> 00:51:32,010 believe global warming is a conspiracy 1152 00:51:36,780 --> 00:51:34,620 and here's Michael Jackson apparently 1153 00:51:40,050 --> 00:51:36,790 getting out of his own coroner's van 1154 00:51:42,240 --> 00:51:40,060 but Australia is no different recently 1155 00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:42,250 an email circulated claiming to show 1156 00:51:46,350 --> 00:51:44,530 proof that our prime minister had once 1157 00:51:49,290 --> 00:51:46,360 claimed in a newsletter to be in a 1158 00:51:51,540 --> 00:51:49,300 lesbian relationship in fact it had been 1159 00:51:53,190 --> 00:51:51,550 faked but many people forwarded the 1160 00:51:55,500 --> 00:51:53,200 email on without checking its 1161 00:51:57,510 --> 00:51:55,510 authenticity it's also been claimed 1162 00:52:00,240 --> 00:51:57,520 Harold Holt was abducted by a Chinese 1163 00:52:02,070 --> 00:52:00,250 submarine and defusing dave thornton and 1164 00:52:05,490 --> 00:52:02,080 both the same person because they never 1165 00:52:08,940 --> 00:52:05,500 on the project at the same time true 1166 00:52:10,410 --> 00:52:08,950 done time to do a little bit of human so 1167 00:52:12,930 --> 00:52:10,420 what draws are still good conspiracy 1168 00:52:18,060 --> 00:52:12,940 theory and why in the information age 1169 00:52:19,950 --> 00:52:18,070 does fiction often win out over fact dr. 1170 00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:19,960 rachel Dunlop is the vice president of 1171 00:52:23,700 --> 00:52:21,490 the Australian skeptics New South Wales 1172 00:52:26,850 --> 00:52:23,710 and if conspiracy is to be believed 1173 00:52:28,620 --> 00:52:26,860 possibly a robot Rachel why are so many 1174 00:52:31,770 --> 00:52:28,630 people drawn to these conspiracy 1175 00:52:34,170 --> 00:52:31,780 theories hi Charlie I'm not a robot a 1176 00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:34,180 lot of people are drawn to conspiracy 1177 00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:35,770 there is because there's so much fun and 1178 00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:37,690 they're fascinating aren't they and I 1179 00:52:40,950 --> 00:52:39,490 mean when you look at probably the real 1180 00:52:42,930 --> 00:52:40,960 explanation for the reason something 1181 00:52:45,810 --> 00:52:42,940 happens it's usually much more simple 1182 00:52:47,340 --> 00:52:45,820 much more boring and I guess it's a bit 1183 00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:47,350 like the truth is out there you know an 1184 00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:49,330 x-files kind of thing is something if 1185 00:52:53,220 --> 00:52:50,650 there something more interesting and 1186 00:52:55,010 --> 00:52:53,230 weird and creepy going on it's much more 1187 00:52:57,320 --> 00:52:55,020 interesting and fun what's the silliest 1188 00:52:59,700 --> 00:52:57,330 conspiracy theory you've ever heard 1189 00:53:01,440 --> 00:52:59,710 Kerry there are so many but I think my 1190 00:53:03,150 --> 00:53:01,450 favorite would have to be the Illuminati 1191 00:53:06,630 --> 00:53:03,160 and the New World Order and this is a 1192 00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:06,640 conspiracy theory that it revolves 1193 00:53:09,570 --> 00:53:08,170 around the idea that there's a bunch of 1194 00:53:12,150 --> 00:53:09,580 people called the New World Order who 1195 00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:12,160 want to take over the world and form one 1196 00:53:15,930 --> 00:53:14,170 government and it also involves the 1197 00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:15,940 Illuminati which involves the 1198 00:53:19,830 --> 00:53:17,770 Rothschilds and the Rockefellers from 1199 00:53:21,810 --> 00:53:19,840 the United States and that it isn't 1200 00:53:24,750 --> 00:53:21,820 people now the lizard people are 1201 00:53:28,230 --> 00:53:24,760 apparently a group of lizard overlords 1202 00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:28,240 who are amongst one of them is George W 1203 00:53:32,060 --> 00:53:30,090 Bush the royal family 1204 00:53:34,130 --> 00:53:32,070 are apparently reptiles living inside 1205 00:53:37,250 --> 00:53:34,140 human skin until one day they can come 1206 00:53:39,050 --> 00:53:37,260 out and take over the world hard to 1207 00:53:41,720 --> 00:53:39,060 believe you he seems to leave that 1208 00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:41,730 Rachel Rachel I've got a friend who's 1209 00:53:45,620 --> 00:53:43,530 probably watching because he's got far 1210 00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:45,630 too much time on his hands people in 1211 00:53:50,180 --> 00:53:48,090 every single conspiracy theory going 1212 00:53:53,030 --> 00:53:50,190 around and I never corrected me is it 1213 00:53:54,380 --> 00:53:53,040 healthy for him just to believe well no 1214 00:53:56,420 --> 00:53:54,390 I mean it can get to a point where 1215 00:53:58,130 --> 00:53:56,430 people become very paranoid and sit in 1216 00:54:00,170 --> 00:53:58,140 their houses with tin foil hat but 1217 00:54:01,730 --> 00:54:00,180 there's a serious side to it as well I 1218 00:54:03,500 --> 00:54:01,740 mean you know there's something like 1219 00:54:07,250 --> 00:54:03,510 fifty percent of americans believe that 1220 00:54:08,720 --> 00:54:07,260 911 was an inside job so it turns out 1221 00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:08,730 now that some people are following these 1222 00:54:12,740 --> 00:54:10,410 conspiracy theories when they're voting 1223 00:54:14,570 --> 00:54:12,750 or when they're choosing health advice 1224 00:54:15,890 --> 00:54:14,580 on the internet like to vaccinate their 1225 00:54:17,300 --> 00:54:15,900 children having something a bit more 1226 00:54:20,030 --> 00:54:17,310 serious now if we could get your answer 1227 00:54:25,130 --> 00:54:20,040 quickly and honestly are you in fact a 1228 00:54:26,660 --> 00:54:25,140 robot there's no evidence to suggest i 1229 00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:26,670 am but you could easily invent a 1230 00:54:30,710 --> 00:54:28,530 conspiracy on the internet and see how 1231 00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:30,720 it goes yes is exactly the kind of 1232 00:54:34,460 --> 00:54:32,970 excuses i would expect from a robot dr. 1233 00:54:47,630 --> 00:54:34,470 rachel done like thank you very much for 1234 00:54:52,109 --> 00:54:50,820 I'm Eugenie Scott executive director of 1235 00:54:55,140 --> 00:54:52,119 the National Center for Science 1236 00:54:56,910 --> 00:54:55,150 Education in Oakland California we 1237 00:54:58,740 --> 00:54:56,920 defend and support the teaching of 1238 00:55:00,600 --> 00:54:58,750 evolution and climate change when it 1239 00:55:02,730 --> 00:55:00,610 comes under attack for religious and 1240 00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:02,740 political reasons we help teachers 1241 00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:05,170 parents school boards and other citizens 1242 00:55:11,340 --> 00:55:07,810 defend good science in the schools come 1243 00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:11,350 visit us at NCC calm and on YouTube and 1244 00:55:16,500 --> 00:55:13,930 Facebook and let us know if science 1245 00:55:35,330 --> 00:55:16,510 comes under attack in your community we 1246 00:55:41,270 --> 00:55:38,870 thank you for listening to episode 171 1247 00:55:45,110 --> 00:55:41,280 of the skeptic zone well I made my way 1248 00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:45,120 he's a market street yes the main street 1249 00:55:49,970 --> 00:55:46,890 I guess you could say of San Francisco 1250 00:55:51,910 --> 00:55:49,980 and it is really alive with action it's 1251 00:55:54,590 --> 00:55:51,920 getting towards knock off time of course 1252 00:55:56,330 --> 00:55:54,600 people are starting to head home but the 1253 00:55:59,060 --> 00:55:56,340 streets are alive there are trams and 1254 00:56:02,000 --> 00:55:59,070 buses taxis and cars and people 1255 00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:02,010 everywhere well on next week's show I'm 1256 00:56:05,740 --> 00:56:03,930 really not sure what we have for your 1257 00:56:08,270 --> 00:56:05,750 next week's show maybe some report from 1258 00:56:11,090 --> 00:56:08,280 some reports from some of our reporters 1259 00:56:15,410 --> 00:56:11,100 i hope i'm going down to visit brian 1260 00:56:17,930 --> 00:56:15,420 dunning maybe a word or two from him but 1261 00:56:19,730 --> 00:56:17,940 for now anyway from downtown San 1262 00:56:28,050 --> 00:56:19,740 Francisco this is Richard Saunders 1263 00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:30,460 you've been listening to the skeptic 1264 00:56:39,220 --> 00:56:35,450 zone visit our website at www skeptics